Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: All right, today we have Jenna Zoe with us. We are so fortunate to have Jenna here. Jenna is a world leading expert in human design and the founder of the My Human Design app and website.
Jenna lives between Ibiza and the UK and, and la. I understand as well now. And she's released a beautiful book last year called Human Human Design. The revolutionary system that shows you who you came here to be.
Human Design, for those of you who may not know, is a spiritual science that tells you exactly who you came here to be and how to become it.
It's a different lens which may help you understand yourself spiritually when other approaches have not resonated for you. Jenna says it this way, it's spiritually your way. It's your custom manual to becoming authentic and living your dreams with ease. Jenna, thank you so much for being with us today. Got lots of questions for you about human design and it's going to be a really fun topic for us to explore together.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor to be here. You have no idea. One of the sort of main people that has guided the way that I make decisions every single day to this day. And you've been in my, in my aura for how many years has it been? 15 almost. Was it 2009 or 10? That book, your first book came out?
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Oh, no, the first book was I think 2005.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, maybe that long. Something like that. So, yeah, it's such a, such a privilege to be speaking with you today.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Oh, it's really a joy to have you and I love what you've done. You've taken human design and you've made it. I mean, I never really knew it existed before. For you, I feel like, you know, the way you present it from your books and the app. The app is so much fun by the way. It's so beautifully crafted. So it's, it's so much fun to use. And you know, I've, I suppose let's start with, you know, can you explain human design and how it works?
I've read it described as a blend of quantum physics, astrology, the I Ching, the Kabbalah, Myers Briggs Vedic and sciences, genetics, the chakra system, like all rolled into one.
And yeah, like the neutrinos carry the information at birth and imprint upon us and it gives this, you know, this signature. So I'd love for you just to speak about it in those initial fundamental terms.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, so I love that you bring up neutrinos. So basically, what Happens is, and we all know that we're swimming in, in energy all the time.
And human design was formulated by a man in 1987 who already had a lot of wisdom about Kabbalah, the I Ching, regular astrology and the chakra system.
And he was in Ibiza himself in complete silence and got this massive download that he really wasn't that conscious of. And he started filling in like books and books and books on this wisdom that had basically channeled into him. And I think he was in almost like a non conscious state.
Upon revisiting what he'd written, he was equally as surprised as anyone else might be.
And what he posited and, or what was, you know, come through him in, in 87 was that there are these subatomic particles called neutrinos that come from all the different planets in our solar system. That stars generate information, that they generate life and energy, right? And they're the powerhouses of our, of our universe.
And that they carry this sort of programming information, they almost carry out, you know, God, the universe, whatever you want to call it, sort of agenda for it. It their little, their little sort of, you know, they're the people on the, on the production line. And so what happens is that the day you're born, if your soul is choosing the exact lifetime that it wants to achieve or go through in this life, it's going to choose the specific time and place that it needs to sort of pop into reality through.
And what happens the day you're born, an exact time you're born.
There's a specific energy in the world. And the way that we measure that energy, right, is not just any more someone looking into your eyes and saying, oh, blue eyes, that means you're a star child or whatever. There's an actual scientific way of measuring it. And we measure it through measuring the specific neutrinos that were present in the world at that time in your specific location. And neutrinos. It's really interesting because he used to call it gray science, which is something that he was talking about that wasn't yet proved. But what we're now seeing is that current science is actually catching up with a lot of the things that he used to say that had no, I guess, evidence to them. So for example, he said there is something called neutrinos. He said they don't travel at the speed of light, they travel 99% the speed of light or 99.8% the speed of light.
He said that they pass through matter, right? So they don't get blocked by a massive concrete wall, they will literally just travel through. And right now, in the South Pole, there is a piece of ice that is a million cubic square feet that they. Scientists are actually measuring how neutrinos behave by passing them through this. This ice cube and actually validating a lot of the stuff that he said. And that's just one of the great sciences that he spoke about. So anyway, when we know your birth time and place, we can actually measure the specific energy that was imprinted into you. And if you think about that energy, the first minute you take your first breath, if you're literally absorbing those first neutrinos, they're the things that are like planting your essence into you, right? And so the journey of becoming your real self is actually just going back to the first energy that you chose to have imprinted in you, right onto your essence as a. As a child.
And also three. Three months before you were born.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: That's.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: That was half of it. And then the. The time you're born is the other half.
So kind of when the soul enters the body and then when the body comes into fruition, so you take both and.
And then. Yeah. So the goal is to say, this is who you already came here to be. And so instead of telling you the five things every successful person does and expecting you to follow that with thinking you're going to get the same results as everybody else, let's actually tailor the manual to a good life, to how you're already built to operate, because this is the science of the aura. So how your energy functions. And the body just sits inside the aura.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: So what we think we're all doing is this physical thing here, but actually our auras are advertising us everywhere we go. And, you know, you can kind of feel when someone is aligned, even if they're not the same way as you. You kind of know when their soul and their surface are on the same page. And that's very magnetic, right? So not just to people, but also to opportunities and synchronicities and to the universe, because universe wants to use people who are aligned and who are themselves.
So the real goal is actually to strip all the noise away of who you've been told to be and get this manual of who you actually are, and then go back to. Go back to that and see what happens.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Wow, there's a whole world there to unpack. It's fascinating. And you know, how remarkable that this came through him and that he received it the way he did. And, I mean, it's all just. It's so magical.
And I love the individual. The individuality of it. You. I love this quote from your book and how it underscores the individuality. You write. Human design is a system that says first you look at how a person is specifically built, then design their optimal way of being. From there, you continue. Before your soul comes here, it decides exactly the path it wants to accomplish in this life. And in order to help it do and have and become all the things it wants to become in this incarnation, it chooses the exact ways of being that would help it do all of that.
Your ways of being are not random. They are divine.
That's. That's all. That's your right, straight from your book. And I love that. So, like, beginning with the individuality and how we all are so different and. And. And then to the. There. There's three aspects I love. I love. I love a lot about. But specifically that I'm very passionate about power retrieval, which this has so much to do with. More you unpack it, you realize, you know, you focus a lot. And how. Here's how we' all of our energy and then the deconditioning. Those three things, individuality, power retrieval and deconditioning are absolute centerpieces of this work. And that's why I love it so much. It resonates so strongly with me because it's like we have got to get things out of the way that aren't working. For example, you. Some people who like it sounds like, so our world is created or our world is built for people to behave like machines. And the ti. The. The output, hour by hour, we're expected almost like labor workers, like factory workers to all, you know, work eight hours, have, you know, consistent energy throughout those eight hours. And yet most of us, from what I've taken in from all the different types, most like, no one's actually designed for that. So I was relieved because I like by. I'm. I'm a manifesting generator. And I was like, okay, that explains why I have those mountains and troughs and why that's actually okay. Because sometimes I'd be hard on myself when I'm in the trough and it's like, but I need this downtime because it's on. Is so high.
And you know, so some people might need a nap in the day if they're like, so anyway, I'm not gonna go. I'm gonna get. Obviously, I'm very excited about this and I love. Yeah so much. Specifically, it's so.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: It's so Freeing when you realize that if you can take a step back from questioning your own worth and whether you're fitting in or not, if you literally just look at how homogenized the world has become and how many people that's failing, that isn't just you.
And so I think that's something to kind of keep remembering, is that historically, everyone who's ever wanted to have power and control, the best way to do that is not to tell people to go off and do what they their souls wish is. The best way to do that is to condition people and say, this is why we should all want the same thing. This is why we should all serve the same false idol. And this is why you should all rely on this one thing that we're going to call logic, right? Which is the thing that we're going to say makes more sense than everything else your soul is ever going to present to you. And therefore you will get praised when you do it. And this is where the rewards come.
So I think that helps take a little bit of the sting out of it, where your ego or your fear, whatever you want to call it, will tell you that it's just you that doesn't fit in. It's actually that the system is designed to make everyone fit in where originally there is nothing to fit into, basically. And so it's as much about the science of individuation as it also is when you talk about the deconditioning. It's about dehomogenizing yourself and realizing all the different ways that you have ascribed to certain things because you've been told they will get you, you know, if you do X, you will get Y.
And even to look at so far, you know, what are those things have actually worked for you? And have they added joy? Have they added life force? Have they added sovereignty? Because the main thing that people say to us when they start living their design successfully is they say, I trust myself more. That's the number one thing people say to us, like without us ever having said that ourselves.
That's the feedback we get the most. And you can only become an authority of your own life if you actually have learned to not think that other people are the authority and actually put these, these principles into place of actually learning to see, oh, you know what? I do have an answer and it doesn't sound like it fits in. And it's maybe scary or it's maybe radical. I don't know where it's going to lead me to, but life is worth me giving it a shot. To see if it's, see where it gets me because we know what the, what the status quo thing, you know, we know where that gets us.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Like, you know, give or take a couple extra, you know, thousand dollars a year in salary. Like that's a well trodden path. And so I, I really believe that anyone who comes to this information has in their soul this desire to see what the other one, the other, the off the beaten path looks like and that they've decided their life is kind of worth seeing.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: You must see such radical transformations in people when they start to get this freedom to be themselves and retrieve their power and understand that they weren't wrong. They were just walking into a brick wall every day trying to, you know, do what culture would have them be and do. I mean, tell me a little bit about the, those transformations because there must, must be pretty on from. I mean, I would imagine even, just the way, even the way someone dresses is going to change.
Even like the way they think about everything and approach everything. Because you know, if they're standardizing themselves and they're standardizing themselves or unstandardizing themselves, that's like complete and, and just the, in the inspiration it should give to anyone who is exposed to that or hears about this. It's like, oh, thank goodness we can drop all of that weight now and all of that false heat and error.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I mean, as you're saying that the, the number of stories that just are flooding into my, to my mind are just absolutely crazy. But let me think of an example. So one of the girls that works for me was told that she had ADD when she was a child and she was put on medication for it and so on and so forth. We know, we know that road.
And there's a, there's a component in your design which is called your incarnation cross. And that's the sort of theme of your incarnation. Like what does your soul come here to correct or achieve?
Her incarnation cross. Then there's 192 of them and hers is called the cross of explanation.
So one of the things that made people think that she had ADD was she was always like, why? But why? And had such a busy mind since she started, only since really she started, you know, living and breathing this, this work. Has she realized that it's a different form of intelligence because her mind is restless in its need to be able to explain things and that it's not because she couldn't sit still in a classroom. It's not because she was bouncing off the walls and you know, actually she's more intelligent than anyone ever told her that she was. And because she's learned to use her voice on the right thing for her, which is explaining things very clearly, people are now seeing her as intelligent in the way that is her flavor of intelligence. And so if you can imagine someone who grows up thinking they're stupid, their entire life is now being seen because they also know how to talk. And they're not just overcompensatingly talking nonsense out of, you know, that, that desperate when you're in lack and you want everyone to hear you, her leaning into, okay, I'm here to explain very logical things in a obvious way. Now she's having conversations that are feeling so fulfilling and people are coming out of nowhere who don't even know she's been working on this saying she's so small, she really knows what she's talking about in her personal life. People who don't even know what she does for a living. She lives in Arizona and you know, surrounded by a lot of people who are none the wiser. But your outer reality begins to really reflect that. And I also can't tell you the number of people who.
This is a really common one where people get put on, what do you call it, like mood medication, like antidepressants and things.
And very often I will look at a chart and say, have you ever been diagnosed with being depressive? But it actually, there's something called a very large emotional wave which means that you're someone who is capable of experiencing, you know, very, very rose colored glasses and very, very blues colored glasses that has nothing to do with your real life, but it's like almost the that God is the DJ and it's playing those, those notes through you to expand what you're able to feel greater than what other people are. And only because we've over praised the good moods and shied away from the negative moods have we told those people that there's shame around feeling that. And then there's a heaviness. Then when you feel that, when you give people the levity of just being able to be in it without attaching a story or a narrative to it or thinking that it's personal. Those are the people. I mean, think about the number of sad songs that have been created from those kind of states, right, that have moved everybody. That's a fuel, it's a motor, it's inspiration, it's empathy. It's so many beautiful things that lie in those states that those people actually should be brave Enough to go into, to mine the gold, right? But all of a sudden these people are moved to tears when I say, have you, have you been told that you're depressed and that there's something wrong with you? And maybe there isn't so much. That's. I think one of my favorite sort of common threads in how people's lives have changed is getting off medications for things that we're told are disorders, for example.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: Oh, I could see how that could have such a big impact.
And then it reminds me of your signature versus no self.
Not self, not self. So one of the things I'm so fixated on helping people do is become their authentic self and release this false self, this erroneous self, because I know what that I mean, that's, it's everything, you know, to just to stop that. And this, the, this the way you define the signature, your signature versus your not self is really helpful in that.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: So the signature and the not self is something that everybody has. There are two sort of feelings or signs that will come to you.
The signature is the way that you can tell you are living authentically or you are living your design. You're flexing the sort of manual.
And the not self is the feeling you get when something needs tweaking.
And those two things are lifetime companions, you know. And being aligned is not a black and white thing like, oh, once you get aligned, then you're forever aligned. It's just that there's always new layers and there's the subtleties that you have to kind of constantly pay attention to. So it's never that. The goal is to just always feel amazing. You know, no matter how high you go, you're not self will kind of revisit you and say, hold on. There's this other little tiny way in which you speak to people that makes you give, that gives you this not self feeling. So for example, if you are, if your type, which is your. If you're into astrology and your, you know, your sun sign is sort of like the main thing that you talk about when you talk about your astrology and human design. We have five energy types. And they're not personalities, they're more how your energy works. Your profile would be your personality, so that's what you look to for that. But when you're using your energy correctly, you would feel a certain way, and when you're using it incorrectly, you would feel another way. So, for example, if your type, well, you're a manifesting generator, so we'll use you when you are Aligned, your signature would be satisfaction. Which means it's that feeling of like, you know, like I just feel like I lived life to the floor. I had a really good juicy day at the end and I used my energy in the correct ways and I just feel like this life kind of tastes good to me. You know what I mean? It's that, it's that deep satisfaction. I know, exactly.
So when you feel that, that's a sign that you're aligned and you can use it for micro things, right? Like does something small. If you're watching yourself from above, are you satisfied? When you are whatever saying this thing to this person or whatever, does it give you that feeling? And then similarly, you're not self would be something that would come up to show you like this, this is not a good way to use your energy. And so as a manifesting generator, yours is frustration. So that can be actual frustration, but it can also feel like a frustration of energy. Like things aren't moving, things feel stuck, something needs to move out of me, right?
So energy is getting kind of clogged because it's not moving through you or you're not using it on things that feel satisfying.
So it's just, it's almost like it's giving you the power back again with the signature and not self. So that you never have to, you know, look to a person to say this is right, this is wrong. You know, everyone should be putting, you know, lights on at this time. And like all of that is constriction.
Even the best studied, best intended, you know, all that thing, when there's dogma that comes in, that's when you know it's wrong. When there's, when there's principle that's beautiful. And I, you know, that's when you can kind of be your own energy reader and really apply it. But when you're saying everyone needs to look at, forgive me, you know, everyone needs to look at sunlight within 30 minutes of waking up.
There's, there's, there's, there's a stripping away of this is why, this is what's behind that. And let me give you the why. So then you know how to do with it, that, with that wisdom, what you need to do with it, right? Rather than just here, stick to the, stick to the plan. So for example, you know, it takes some people longer to wake up than other people in this example, in this instance, right? So you could say, well, sunlight is life giving and it's amazing and it's wonderful for you, but here's how to figure out how to dose and how much is right for you. You know, you. That's why I resonate with you so much because you do such a good job of. You know, even in that book. I think the reason why I loved it in the beginning was like, here are the different stages and here's how to go at the pace of love and you know, this not this like one and done thing and here's how to kind of go with it depending on, you know, where you're at. And so whenever we, we all know the difference as well of when we feel powerless and we would rather someone give us the answer. But what your, your strategy and you're not self and your signature give you is like, here's how to gauge if it's actually working for me or not. No matter how much the stories of my mind are saying this is great.
How do I. How's it making me feel? And then that's how I. That's how I can get out of this.
The, the noise up in the, up in the head.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And I understand that frustration as well. I've had this visceral experience that it really, really does help to have a touchstone like that say, you know, this is what I'm feeling. This is how I know to communicate with myself. This is how I know I can read my energy.
And because everyone is so different, obviously it's just so refreshing to know that there are all these different types and probably, you know, and more and more and more. But when it comes to getting to your core to, to be able to read your true signature, how do you feel or do you feel that purifying the body, the mind, emotions plays into that.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: And you know this because you've probably heard so many people across so many different areas of life say this to you. But there is absolutely no way that I would even be doing this work if I wasn't clear in body and, and therefore clear in mind afterwards.
Because I don't think it's easy to even connect with how you feel if you are worried about the more rudimentary things like just feeling basic good in your body. Like it's, it's a, it's a privilege that you can only afford when you have the, you know, most physical, rudimentary things out of the way and you have to almost have them working for you. So a lot of the times, you know, I say to people, there's a. There's a component in your design called digestion. And I say to people, and, and also, you have to learn how to eat based on how your energy type and your intuition decide what you're supposed to be eating. Not, you know, eat blueberries, because they do this or whatever. And, you know, the founder of human design used to say that food is information, and you can only unlock your genius. The most basic out of the four, what they call the four transformations, which is how to get. How to line things up in your favor to unlock your mind's genius. The first one is your digestion. So you have to be taking in the right information in life in order to even have something to be working with that your brain is then alchemizing into something to even say.
So when they talk about, you know, food is. This is the most dense form of information we could take in. You know, more than words, more than audio. Like, it's a physical thing. And so I really think it's. And he used to say this too, like, it's the biggest unlock is start feeding their kids, your kids, according to the way that they're supposed to, because then you don't have to think about that. But it's such a heavy one to address. Even if you think you're putting energy into everything else, it's just so inefficient. And I just wake up every day because I feel like life is so full of challenges at the moment that I just wake up every day and I'm like, thank God that's not one of the things that is taking up all of my time, so I can actually get into refining my alignment and. And reading my energy and stuff like that.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Wow. There's a lot I want to address there. One of them is that here. Okay, thank you. It's per. This is a great answer. I'm thinking about all these influences, these external influences, because we. We are very hygienic in terms of our life, our mind, our body, our spirit. We are in a. We, you know, we operate from alignment. We feel it when we're out of alignment. We feel it acutely, and we slip ourselves back in. It's like. It's like Jenga. It's all in line. And then if the one piece comes out, it's like, whoop, back in, back in.
So, but then there's like the hurricanes and tornadoes around us. And so, you know, our Njenga said, I don't know why I'm using this analogy. Just came to me now, you know, it work holding it together despite the winds and the rains and all this stuff is going on. And I think that's Part of it is like testing because it's like this. The stronger you get, the more intense your tests become. Because it's like, hey, you, have you learned this lesson? Let's run it by you one more time. Make sure you. Oh, you got it. Good. Okay, now this one and this one, this one.
And it seems like the more robust you become, the more intense the testings become. Fortunately, you can deal with most of them, you know, with a certain degree of ease because you've developed a certain adeptitude. But in terms of those external things that you're talking, talking about, like you wake up the morning, it's like, okay, so I've got these ducks in a row. Thank goodness I don't have to worry about them. I know my health is going to be on point, I know my mental clarity is going to be on point.
But yet there's all these things that happen to be feel need to be fielded.
Speak about that a little bit and how you personally utilize your tools to manage those things.
And I also love that you said that because I feel like there's this sense among, let's say, seekers or there's this sense that like, well, everything should be easy if you're in alignment or you know, if you do, if you're in flow, everything's. Everything's cool and easy. And I beg to differ, you know, and very few people are willing to talk about that and maybe because they're, you know, afraid to be seen or something. But you know, I, I think those kinds of things are part of not being in alignment. Not to be afraid of something you're wasting your energy on trying to keep this facade up because God forbid someone see that you're actually, you know, contending with things. So in whatever way comes to you.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Would you say, I love that you said that and I've never thought about it before, but it, it is firstly, you know, everyone is subject to the same rules of the game, which is that you will be challenged. And it's exactly the perfect challenges that you need for your own becoming and transformation.
But it's. And maybe this came from you. I think you described it once as the warriors path or something because.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Like.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: You said, I think you feel things more acutely and therefore they do kind of hit you more. Like I feel more porous being this way, but I also feel like the ability to shift through it is so much quicker and so to be kind of very mundane about it, it's kind of just a choice, like do you want to be able to feel it more deeply and then shift through it, or do you want to be numb to it and not be able to shift it so much? I don't know.
But I don't even know if people think that that's an option. But I do think that there is a.
We definitely don't want to be escapist about why we do this work, because all of a sudden it means it's going to be heaven on earth. And we don't come for heaven on earth. We come for obviously being so happy with who we are. We come here with making ourselves proud. We come here to experience joy and to create and to witness our own, you know, divine creative power inside. But we also come for the, you know, the ride. And so I think if you don't accept that that's the game, then you're playing the wrong game. And then you're only going to be dissatisfied if you face the rules and then know how to work with the rules. There's an inner safety that comes that you can't get. If you are like, you know, spiritual bypassing all the time is, is. Is the way I've come to sort of understand it. But it is difficult because. And I don't know how you feel, but I do feel like things just.
Just penetrate so much when you're not numbing and stuffing and all of that stuff.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. And it's kind of like when you have a clean body and you're put into a place that is toxic, you're gonna. Your instincts, your antenna are so sharp, you're gonna pick it right up and you're gather. And like you said, we. We process it so much more efficiently. So it's like, you know, the, the clean body takes in some toxins and it's gonna. They're gonna move out so quickly. They're gonna find X. They're gonna be dealt with.
So that's, That's. That is really helpful to have.
I love that your app enables you to look up the types of your loved ones because, like, you alluding to children earlier and how helpful it would be as parents if we had a sense of our children's types and even just in terms of feeding them. And so, you know, it's like I look forward to. I mean, I, I probably, probably won't be so much about feeding them at this stage because they're older. But, but actually I could help them feed themselves. I could tell them, here's your type. Here, go look at this. But, you know, I would have loved to have known My kids types earlier, you know, now I'm getting to make sense of it thanks to the app. And I can, you know, put in their dates and times and everything and get a sense of how I can better support them, because I know how their energy runs, you know?
[00:31:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. And it is never not healing, because the day Natalia, the day I gave my mom a reading, it just changed my relationship to her. Not because she had to change at all, but because if we both sit on the same chair, I'm gonna look at you and assume that your reasons for sitting on that chair are the same reasons I have for sitting on that chair.
When you understand what drives someone differently, the gifts that they have, the way they're using those things, it dissolves so much of what we have in relationship issues, which is us ascribing our understanding of life onto what we see another person doing, which is only the. The last 5% is the physical. Right? And so, you know, the. The words they use are different than the way we mean the words and all of that stuff. And that's why I always say, you know, understanding each other and ourselves is what will heal the world, because there's 99 of the time, there is an innocent motivation behind why someone is doing what they're doing. And either it's their essence or it's their conditioning. And you can get to a place where, if you really try to look for it, when, you know, you've hit that place, is when you go, oh, you know, and you have that, and you can create that with anybody. And that's what really makes us compatible. I always say, you can be compatible with anyone. Obviously, in a romantic relationship, there needs to be physical chemistry and whatever, and you need to be, you know, you're drawn to some people's essence. But compatibility is created, not fated.
So it's that understanding of what we can do for each other. And on the kids thing, what's interesting is that kids will often start off living their design anyway, before, you know, depending on how much we condition them. And what's funny is that the food one is very easy to see in kids. So a lot of the times, you know, you'll have those kids that only want to eat one thing at a time. And you have people that, you know, the parents are going, no, no, they have to eat a variety of things. Or they have kids who only want to finish all of their peas before moving on to their carrots or whatever. That's another type of digestion. So you'll see these nuances of Actually, and we know this from all, you know, the spiritual things, is that they're much more connected to before they've been conditioned.
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Wow, that makes so much sense. I mean, we'll literally never have a reason to say, like, there. There's no more you're weird. No one would say you're weird anymore. It's like, oh, you're. You're you.
And, you know, it's like all the schoolyard bullies, they could be silenced. Like, go. You know, it's. It's. It's wonderful to understand each other. Will definitely bring about peace. That's all. That's what we need for peace. And. And we live in our own understanding of everything. And like you said, we. We think everyone's thinking the same thing we are. And it's hard not to think that way unless you get the. This. This veil pulled back on the way things actually are. You must have been so excited when you discovered this work. And is that. Did you just throw yourself right into it?
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Do you know? I.
I was kind of into the sort of mainstream spiritual things for a while. By the time I discovered human design and my life was not moving forward, I was kind of doing the spiritual stuff on the side without really feeling like it was moving my life forward.
I met a shaman who was a manifesting generator. He did a lot of different. He pulled a lot of different like you do. Pulled a lot of different modalities into one. Into one session, into his wisdom. One of them was human design. And I never heard of it before, but the things he'd said to me about me were things that I kind of were secretly wishing were my way. And so I just. It lit something up inside me. I had a food business at the time.
I started doing readings of people on their side. And then when my side hustle was making more money than my.
My main job, that's kind of when I got the hint. But also, this is nine years ago now, so it wasn't as trendy as it is now. So I had a lot of fears about, you know, getting into this, but you know what it's like, and you're the same. When something is just like, it can't not be what you devote your life to. It's not a choice, you know, no matter what the outside is saying and doing and thinking is cool or not cool, I just was like, I have to do this for myself. I don't know where it's gonna go, but it's just fulfilling me so much that nothing else. It's Just all pales in comparison, you know.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: And also, you communicate so beautifully, as I've told you, I think several times. And actually your. Your book, I want to let it remind everyone the Genus book is.
You can get the hard copy, but you can also listen to it on audible, which is the way I listen to it. And I just love being carried away by Jenna's beautiful voice.
She narrates the book and so just like let everyone know that. But I can. I can only imagine. But I think the reason that it has become so popular is because of you. I mean, I think you're a significant part of that. And so, you know, that's. It all makes sense. You're supposed to drive it forward and make it more known.
It's, you know, it's so unique and it's also so refreshing after so many years of feeling that you.
I've always been compelled by aspects of astrology and the more transcendent aspects, less of the mundane.
But there's still a limitation there with astrology because it's the integration of all of these different things that makes this so unique in so much, so expansive, really.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: No, no. I was gonna ask you what type you are, but you can tell me after. Please respond.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: I'm a projector.
I'm a two, four. And my intuition is emotional. I think you told me you're a manifesting generator, but you didn't tell me. Are you sacral intuition or you emotional intuition?
[00:37:19] Speaker A: Three five.
[00:37:20] Speaker B: You're three, five. I love. Where are you?
[00:37:23] Speaker A: That's right. I gotta check my app.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Yeah, let me know. That's so interesting.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: Confirm. But I think that's right.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: So.
So what the cool thing about the reason why this information is available to us now and why it hasn't existed, because, you know, when I first came across, I was like, why haven't I had this before? And also, why has it only just come around? And you know, really what I've come to understand is that there's always new levels of truth and it gets revealed to us as a collective when we are kind of ready enough to be able to handle it. Right. So, you know, running the four minute mile had to happen at the specific time. You know, breaking the time space continuum is going to have to happen when we can handle it. And so human design is kind of an evolution of many different things that existed before that humans could handle before. So, for example, in human design, we are nine centered beings, whereas the chakra system talks about us being seven centered beings. But as of 200 years ago, the way we functioned as a collective has made us more genetically dynamic and more specific and, and we've needed more centers for specific areas of life that are now important, that maybe weren't before.
So it's just kind of like it doesn't negate any of these things that we might be into. It's just saying that there's new information, which there always is. And one of the biggest, I think ironically, one of the things that makes you feel safer is to understand that nothing should be the resting place, you know, so there's always going to be more that we're going to learn and it doesn't devalidate, devalue, sorry, anything else that has come before.
So, you know, there's still truth to the beauty of seven chakras, but we just have nine now. And funny enough, coming in 2027 is, it is a new era according to human design, where genetically the kids born after 2027 are going to be completely different to us. And you know, the founder of human design Talked about how 2027 was going to be an era change and all the things that will be happening in the run up for 2027 before he died, which was in 2010, 11.
So, and everything he was saying is, is now what we're experiencing this like this almost mad rush to finish this collective karma of bringing down structures that don't serve us and all these sorts of, you know, self and outward oppression and, and homogeny. And so it's just, it's, it's right place, right time with, with this information and it just adds to the truth of astrology and chakras and I Ching and makes it more applicable.
But I also think that you can go to a great tarot reader and a great astrology reader and a great human design reader and they'll probably all get you kind of adjacent places. But if you're with someone who has incorrect consciousness, then all of those tools can be absolutely misused beyond, you know, the, the intention of, of the tools.
So you have to make sure that you go to someone who's really in service consciousness and, and definitely not in spiritual ego, which is to be avoided.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's, it's interesting because I think 10 years ago if you'd said that no one would know what you were talking about.
Like what is, like how, how do you discern and differentiate consciousness levels? And now it's like everyone's starting to understand that there's, you know, there's, there's, you know, this, this Coming to clarity and higher consciousness versus being of that worldly matrix mindset. And again, you couldn't, you couldn't have this, you couldn't even use this terminology before. So we are moving fast. We are, we are coming to consciousness, higher consciousness very, very quickly right now. And I wonder if I've got actually two questions. I don't want to forget the one by asking the others. I know which one to ask first. But so basically with astrology, for example, there's the astrological imprints of time, of the earth itself, of eras themselves.
Like you mentioned, the babies are being born in 2027 kind of applies. So it's adjacent. So then there's also the individual astrology. So did the founder have almost like names, the apply sort of terms for certain cycles as well as the individuals?
[00:42:04] Speaker B: Yes.
So the one we are in now is called the Cross of planning.
And it started in 1615.
And so this era was a collective focused era. So there are three different layers of energy and human design. You have individual, tribal and collective cycles kind of balance each other out to hopefully sort of add good things, good aspects of each in order to get us all more whole.
So this last 400 years or so has really been about how do we create structures, how do we come together, how do we function as a society. Because if you think about it before then, you know, we were much more tribal, we were much more sort of non globalized, let's say. Okay.
And so the last 400 years, you know, we've been trying our best to, to get some good aspects of, of collectiveness built. And we've also had some not such good ones.
The, the coming of the, the next era which is about, it's called the Cross of Maya. And anyone can have this as their individual incarnation cross too.
So you can be across of planning as your incarnation cross.
So the next era that we're going into is all about the individual and joy and just kind of being so in love with the, that sort of fragrance of life. Let's say, you know that, that energetic fragrance. But you know the downside of that and we're already seeing as the, as the world changes over what happens if you're too individual. You know, we don't want to throw the baby out with the ball for what we, that we want to remember that there are values that, to how we function and come together and respect each other, all those things. And if it's too much about individual with no focus on what we give back or no focus on what we contribute, you Know, we're already seeing. It's giving people a lot of existential and mental issues. So, you know, every, everything has a, has a different thing to contend with. But also ultimately 2027 and beyond, the emotions are much less of a focus because hopefully we learn how to master emotions between now and then. Let's see.
But yeah, they're all just different to hopefully get us to, to a higher consciousness if we, you know, meander between the cycles.
[00:44:25] Speaker A: That's amazing. So the, the crosses fascinate me. I want to delve into that next. Next I go on. Yeah, but the. So but the last. The are the series that we're in. The section that we're in is from the 1500, 1600s. That that cross is so many centuries long.
And then the next one, the Cross of Maya, going to start in 2027. You said these new children. So we're really at the end of a cycle. We really are.
I mean we're two, two years and change away from dramatic shift. I think the end. I, I honestly, I feel that if the whole hundredth monkey thing is true, that if enough of us come to consciousness, everyone else will too.
I just think we are going to be in happiness and joy. I think all these illusions are going to fall away and people are going to rejoice like the monkeys rejoiced when. Speaking of hundredth monkey, one hundredth monkey. Remember when the monkeys rejoiced when the Wicked Witch of the west was when, When Dorothy threw the water on her and they were all like, they all wanted to be free, but they didn't dare say a word against her. But now when she's gone, everyone's free and liberated.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: Oh my God, I have chills. That's so powerful.
And, and what I say to people is that we are all those, that we are just waiting for someone to go first.
So. And I really believe if you're listening to this, like you are a person who's meant to go first and funny enough, you think you're going to be alone, but you'll see everyone's going to join you there. You know, and that's, that's the real trip is that anyone who's ever done something has had to go through that fear and that risk and that journey of can I do it? Will I do it? And then actually discover that, you know, they've created something so much better that everyone's just happy to get in your downstream. And so the best way to liberate others is to liberate yourself in your Specific ways. You don't have to shout it from the rooftops. Live the way I live.
We're going to be speaking so much more with our energy anyway. And so it's just that principle of entrainment where we won't even have to say this. This is how to do it. It's just like, oh, when I'm in your energy field, I. I can kind of get high off those juices of self liberation that lets me try on that frequency for size. It starts to feel like I like it. And then maybe I can kind of practice getting in it because I've had a taste of it by being around this person.
And I think you're right. I think we are just going to be all enjoy. But I want to remind people that because that is the universe's agenda, that is why it feels hard now. Because it's almost like, listen, we want you to kick all this rubbish out now. Let's make it feel absolutely unbearable because that's how we fast track it, right? So there's nothing wrong with going through something really challenging now because that's its way of saying, listen, I'm going to make you feel like you can't afford to live this old way. Because that's the only way that sometimes we change.
So it's a good sign.
[00:47:09] Speaker A: That's right. That's it. I love that. So true. Okay, so the other question I want to ask you is about compatibility. Are there some types that radically come together in this, the most tremendous burst of healthy mutual expression expansion and others that are not so simpatico?
[00:47:31] Speaker B: The biggest source of incompatibility is thinking that you have to having an expectation of what you're hoping to get out of someone when they can only give you something else.
So it kind of just depends on what you want for your own life and then choosing people who are actually going to foster that. So in a way you have to kind of be radically selfish and get to know what it is you want. If you are someone who decides that, Look, I, for example, I'm a projector, so I only work a couple of hours a day. A lot of my work is very silent.
I ride high off other people's energy, but then I get stimulated really easily. So I could be a projector that's like, I want to write half the stimulation and I like the amount of time that I need to come down from it. Or I could be a projector that's like, you know what, I don't want that stimulation because I can't Handle it right now. But that also means I won't need to come down from it. So everything is a cost benefit analysis if you know what you. Your menu is, right? You know what you're choosing, and you know what people are and what they can give you.
So, you know, I'll give. I'll go back to the example of my mom is like, I'm not gonna get listening from her because she doesn't. Listening is not inherent to who she is. Not everyone is a good listener. You can actually look for it in the chart, right? So again, it's a spiritual idea of everyone needs to learn, have a listen, actually know some people aren't. You know, some people are supposed to be so deaf to the world because that helps them with their mission, right? So they're not supposed to take in so much. So for me, I'm the one causing my own suffering by having this idea that the only way that we're going to have a good relationship is if she listens to me and then me making her listen when I'm actually holding her back. And I think real love is wanting someone to be who they are, not what you know, not who you want them to be. And so this is a way of saying, oh, this is what they're supposed to be, instead of have them tell you when they don't understand themselves or have you have these preconceived notions of what a good person is.
And so, you know, me with my mom now, I look for areas where I can appreciate and gain and benefit from the things she actually does have and then let her off the hook. And then I can go and I'm free to look for that listening in people who actually can listen to me and listen. I might get to a point where I'm like, listen, I'm not getting anything from this person that's giving me anything. And that's fine too. But at least I'm not, you know, having this false idea of you being anything. Wrong. And also, listen, there's also. So it's what you inherently have is layer one. And then you get into the more subtle work, which is also the consciousness through which you're animating the gifts that you have. Right? Because you can be someone who's a great listener, but they can be doing it from being a people pleaser and codependent and needy. That's a very different quality of consciousness behind the gifts that you're sharing than someone who's a good listener from a high consciousness type of place. Right. So it's it's, it's double layered in the sense that it's whether you're using your gift or not, and then it's how you're using the gift. What's behind the gift that you're using? Are you using it for good or are you using it for not so good?
So that's where it gets a little more. It gets a little more nuanced and complex.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: But the bottom line is if we understand each other, we can be more copacetic with each other anyway.
So it seems to me then that that would be hugely beneficial for relationship counselors.
[00:50:47] Speaker B: I mean, to know it.
[00:50:50] Speaker A: I mean, that would be game changing completely. Relation.
[00:50:54] Speaker B: What's interesting is that the. The things you can sort of look at are where you have things in common, are places where you have easy, like you said, copacetic understanding and mutual seeing. And like, I know how you are because I know that feeling myself, you know, so that's beautiful.
That tends to not provide as much kind of dynamism or excitement.
And then on the opposite side, where you have differences is where it sort of expands your world, you know, expands your experiences of what different humans can have also expands. That's what creates chemistry. But it also has a greater area where you can have misunderstanding and judgment and maybe explosiveness. You know, so it's also, I meet people who are together who have almost identical charts and they're very compatible. And I meet people who have the exact opposite who really genuinely, from an energetic perspective, aura, perspective, complete each other. What one has, the other one doesn't, and vice versa. And they like having that more sort of very different from each other sort of relationship. Obviously, most people are somewhere in the middle where we have things in common and we have things that we, you know, vary on, and that's what makes it interesting. So it's also a personal preference of do you want a friendship that looks more similar to you or, you know, do you need a business partner who has the exact opposite stuff as you, or do you need someone who's very similar, again, sort of understanding those things and knowing what you need out of each different person in your life and realizing you can't get it all from every person?
That's when you know how to use these dynamics to your advantage.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: Wow, that makes so much sense.
Oh, my goodness. Jenna, thank you so much for sharing all this. I think everyone's gonna be so excited to go and just find their type and start by using your app. I think that listening, listening to the book or reading the book and getting the app, would you say that that would be the best place to start?
[00:52:53] Speaker B: Those are the two, the two easy. You know, one of the things I'm. I'm really passionate about because I think my 22 year old self who did get into spirituality just felt like I need someone to make this easy. I need someone to make it simple. So that's really one of the things that I try to do is just, you know, if it is just picking up an app and it's on your phone and you have it right there and you know, I mean I, I've now gotten so used to looking at yours since I, since I got into it and you know, just getting little nuggets from you and I do the same. You know, we're very similar in that way where it doesn't have to be this long. I can just watch, you know, the video you made with Nicole the other day and it just, it's those constant revisiting of the information ra than just like a one and done. It's like you just daily reminding yourself of the things that are important. So that was really one of the things that was important to me with this information because it's so, it's so complex. But yeah, those are the two best places to start. And then my website is my human design.com if you want to do the longer stuff like the trainings or the deeper dive videos and if you're called to do any of that.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: Okay. So one could really immerse oneself and learn all the intricacies of human design.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: How to read charts, the cosmology behind it.
Yeah, it goes, it goes so deep.
[00:54:09] Speaker A: And do you also do personal readings?
[00:54:12] Speaker B: I don't, but I have readers that have been trained by me that I recommend because sometimes you do want that sort of one on one customization as well. So I have 18amazing people who I really rate in case anyone does want a, a personal reading sounds like.
[00:54:31] Speaker A: I mean, I think that'd be a really, a great place to start as well, to get to really know your, your own. But look, I mean it opens up a whole new world for everyone. And you know, it's, it's one of those things that also just helps again, it helps remind us of our, the importance of our individual signature, of the importance of our power retrieval, what's draining us, what's feeding us.
And, and what was that third thing that I was so obsessed with?
[00:55:01] Speaker B: Deconditioning.
[00:55:02] Speaker A: Thank you. Deconditioning. Thank you so much. Yes.
Well done. You are a very good listener, but yeah, that's. That's awesome, Jenna. Thank you so much. And also you and your Instagram handle. I have you on Instagram. I just. I don't. Is it just Chenise?
[00:55:20] Speaker B: It's Jenna, Zoe, or it's all. And we're also on My Human Design.
[00:55:24] Speaker A: My Human Design.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: Yeah, you can find me both places.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: What a blessing you've been for us today. And I look forward to exploring it further and integrating it more into my life and sharing it with more people, too.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
[00:55:38] Speaker A: Thank you, Jenna.
