Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: So welcome everyone. Today I have a very special treat for you. I have Rose Gaffer and Rose is a licensed advanced medical massage therapist, an advanced lymphatic drainage specialist, and a TMJ intraoral therapist.
Rose's credentials and her abilities for skills are, are beyond. They're just so exceptional. And even more than her actual skills, her embodiment of the divine is what most inspires me and most just makes me want to bring her full front and center to everyone, to know who she is and to feel her energy. Because I have had bodywork my whole life all over the world and you know, world class bodywork, massage therapy, craniosacral, all sorts lymphatic.
And when I went to Rose, I was, I experienced a whole new level of what body work can be. And not only that, but I thought I knew something about the lymphatic system and about body work at large. And she elevated and enlightened and expanded my understanding of bodywork more than any other educational process or therapist or any exposure I've ever had to the massage and body work world.
So this is why I knew I had to bring her to you. And you need to hear from her directly. I will share with you a little bit of what I went to her four and then Rose, I'd love for you to just. We've got lots of questions for you and just welcome and thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Thank you so much for your kind and wonderful introduction. I'm so glad that we met and that I was able to help you. Thank you for coming to see me and for bringing me here. This is very special.
I'm honored.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Well, you've so much to share and I mean it's, it's actually, it's lifechanging information because it's completely body shifting and body shifting of course, as we know, impacts our emotional field, our mental field, our energetic field, our connection to, to source.
So it's, it's all right there in this healing process. So I actually went in to see Rose thinking I needed to have a massage. And I thought, wouldn't it be nice to have sort of lymphatic massage mix? I thought, you know, here I've, I've got this moment. I kind of need everything because it'd been a busy few weeks and Rose began to enlighten me and explain to me that actually there are better ways to go into the body than what I was imagining. And I just let her take over and work her magic, which was the right decision and get out of the way and let her. Let her do her thing. And it was the most incredible 90 minutes.
She absolutely restored me and gave me a whole new perspective on the lymphatic system.
So, Rose, I guess let's start with what would you say is the biggest misnomer that people have around massage therapy at large? And then we can get into the lymph a little bit.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Thank you for the great introduction and the great question.
I would have to say it's the question of pressure.
So in human anatomy, every cell that we have has one nerve in it. And that nerve does many things.
It senses temperature, spatial orientation, pressure, heat, cold.
And we think that pressure is a choice.
So when you're asked about how much pressure you want, some people think that harder is better and that deeper achieves a better result.
The truth is, is that the body is structured in layers.
So if you think back to childhood, you remember that hard chocolate coating that we put on the ice cream, and then we got to crunch through to the middle.
The skin, the lymph and the fascia are like that chocolate coating, and they're on the outside, and the muscles are kind of squishy, and they're on the inside.
A lot of deep tissue is hard and fast it goes, penetrating through those first three layers without preparing them. So what you experienced with me was I used different pressure levels to access different parts of your anatomy. And that's what you had, is you had light, which is surface area for the skin. The next level of gentle pressure is for the fascia. The next level of slightly pressured, the stretching motion, that's for the lymph, because lymph nodes, if they get crushed or you push on them, they compress, and then they back all the fluid up.
And that's what you and I talked about.
And there's a lot of different practitioners out there from different places in the world that do all kinds of things. And we're not going to dissect all them because they're just too many.
But what you and I specifically went through was that deep, hard pressure is not good for lymph system. That's just the first lesson. So I would say that if a massage is painful, that pain messaging, it's just to tell you that there's a problem and it's not actually a choice that we need to make. It's a yes, no scale. Is it hurting?
Yes. Then the stimulus needs to change, because pain only brings about more problems, not progress.
Does that answer your question?
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Explained? Yes. And then it leads me to so Many more. So one of the things that blew my mind was that you were able to see where I was holding lymph fluid unnecessarily.
And you also identified the connection between that area and my pelvis. And I mentioned you I had an accident when I was a little girl, when I was run over by a bus. And how I could have, over these years held that trauma.
And I mean, we know the body never lies, the body keeps the score and all of that, but you were very specific about it. You helped me kind of make the connection that all these decades I've been. I mean, I'd rather you explain it than I try to reiterate it, but there was that. And just at large, how the lymph stores this memory and how it can result in carrying, well, not having your lymph flow be as exemplary as it could be, and also how it can lead to adipose tissue and make the body just make all these adjustments that can be corrected. And then I'd love, I don't want to miss this, you to speak about the body contouring that you do, because that is just absolutely revolutionary.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: So all of that, thank you.
So the accident that you personally went through, that's significant.
Okay, so the lymph system was crushed underneath the weight of the bus and whatever, however long ago that was.
What's most important to know is that the lymph system does not have a pump. The only pump that we have is in the heart, and the heart does not pump lymph fluid, even though fluid goes to the heart and kidneys.
So your lymph system, if it was crushed underneath the wheels of the bus, your lymph system would need some help.
And if it didn't get the help and the healing that it needed, even at that formative age, you would more than likely carry the injury to the lymph system for your life, which is what you presented to me.
So you are going to have to spend extra time working on your pelvis, working on your legs, like we talked about, to gently move the lymph fluid through because your system is compromised from that life changing event.
So if there's an injury to the body that is significant, like surgery, and it's not actually dealt with properly and therapeutically, then the body can't restore itself. So lymphatic drainage is a holistic way to approach the body as a whole. Even though we talk about the parts, it's a great way for you to move that fluid through even after you've been compromised.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: That's amazing. And you work with patients after surgery for that specific reason, to make sure that they don't wind up carrying all those impediments into their life.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: So here's an example. In January, a man came to see me. He was seven weeks post operative from having a full knee replacement.
So for those of your listeners and subscribers who have watched Loved One or had a knee replacement themselves, we know that when they take out the bones, there's going to be significant swelling. And so his surgeon asked that he come see me to assist with the moving of the swelling in both legs. Because now one leg is off waiting differently. One ankle is swelling differently with trying to cope with the distribution of the weight and the new metal that's been put in the opposite leg. It's an entire systemic change.
So we've been working together twice a week since that surgery, and he has had amazing results because his lymph fluid can't get pumped around because the lymph system doesn't have a pump.
So that's an example. A cesarean section is another example. There's a massive amount of lymph nodes in the front of the abdomen. And when women have cesareans, those lymph nodes usually get traumatized, if not cut.
So women go through the decades with this belly fluid, not understanding why they're bloated. And it's because the lymph fluid was compromised, because the lymph nodes were surgically altered, but they were not told it in such terms.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Would you like to speak about the body contouring and what you're able to do to change the shape? I mean, before someone goes out and thinks they want to do something surgical, what can they do just to. Without any surgery? And this. This wonderful revolution in shifting the body through lymphatic massage.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Thank you. So it's true.
You can contour your body. I'm a contouring therapist. I've been specifically trained in something, a discipline that allows us to change the shape of people. Because you have to think when there's excess fluid. Think of, like, just a bag full of water.
That's the way people present. When we touch them, it feels like we're touching a balloon full of water. Or like. I always think of one of those goldfish. When you're taking the goldfish home from the pet store, one of those little bags, it's all tied up. That's our skin carrying this fluid. And as the fluid begins to go towards the kidneys and move through the body, people's diameter begins to Shrink, because every tissue in the body is stretchable, movable, flexible.
Even bones are flexible to a certain extent. We can hit them and bump them and bruise them and make dents in them and break them, and they can be fixed. So, you know, it's more like looking at anatomy in sculpting it.
And in places in Brazil and in South America, they don't opt for scalpels. They opt for body contouring first.
And so the part of the lymphatic system massage is moving our way towards that. And that's partly what I did to you the second time we saw each other. So the first time was the first time we met, getting to know each other, me getting to know you, you getting to know me, me working with your body. Second time, I had a better idea of what I was dealing with, and so I started contouring you a little bit more in the areas that you were concerned in. That's a mixture of gentle vibrations, stretching, certain massage techniques that pump and gently guide, not push, but guide the fluid. You have to keep in mind that the lymphatic system is very, very sensitive. And so we don't want to affect it adversely by adding pressure or aggression to it. If we want to work with it, we have to work with it nicely because that's what delivers the best results, because it's superficial. So the body contouring massage that you and I are engaging in is specific to what you want, because part of the problem is that we spend a lot of time sitting. And right now, you and I are sitting on the lymph nodes on the back of the thighs and the lymph nodes in the front of the hips that move the fluid out of the legs and up into the torso. Right now they're bent because we're sitting at 90.
There's no lymph fluid translation right now, or it's. It's minimal.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Because we're in these bent positions.
So it's partly the way we are, which is why this kind of massage is really, really great for overall health, circulation, better immune system, and for looking at the areas that you're unhappy with and understanding that swelling is more than likely a component. And it can be.
It can be worked on in the proper way.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah. It's funny because I think, as I recall, I was showing you what I thought was the onset of crepey skin, and you said, no, that's not crepey skin. That's just lymph fluid. And I was so relieved and like, thank goodness. And do you think a lot of.
A lot of people. Well, clearly, I mean, they must mistake what is happening in their body for just this lymph stuckness, this stagnant lymph.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: So what usually happens is people come in to see me, doesn't matter what the gender is, and they say to me, you know, I'm gaining weight. I don't know what it is. I'm changing my diet. I've tried to cut my calories back, I'm exercising more, but I keep just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
When I look at someone, because I've been doing this for so long, I can see it. I can see the fluid on you. I can see the fluid on me. And so I'm able to identify and show them. And once I point it out, like, here's a classic example.
Woman had a cesarean. She had four children, and all four children were C sections. And at that time, from 1970 to 1995 or whatever it was, it just went over the same scar over and over and over again. So she had four scars on top of each other, and her abdomen was just swelling and swelling and swelling. And she blamed it on menopause, which hormone changes are contributing. But once we understood the cause and started working on gently working on the scar tissue and moving the fluid through, her weight and her diameter began to decrease because she was not actually fat. She was just incredibly swollen.
And so once she saw that and she. What she did is she said, you know, I went back and I was looking at my phone and I started seeing the progression of photos.
She said, and I can see it now.
And after we work together twice a week for about two months. And then we decreased her. Then it was once a week, then it was once every two weeks. And now she comes in once a month for maintenance because she's taking care of herself at home by doing the body gua sha, and she's doing the dry brushing, and she using some of the Tami Fender products, which are going to be helpful.
So, you know, she's really made big improvements, but she thought she was just getting fat. And that's not what it was at all.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: That's just. That's a really great example. One of the biggest surprises was how we were misusing the body brush, the dry brush. And I've been using it for decades. And I didn't realize I needed to elevate my. My feet as I was, or my. My legs as I was doing it because we, you know, we stand and we. We brush up, and that's sor the, you know, the approach.
So with regard to tools, you mentioned the gua sha and I mentioned that I was instructed by my trainers over the years to use a body roller, you know, to basically release tight fascia.
But one thing that really stuck with me was the revelation that really we need the human touch. I mean, I suppose, you know, having mentioned the gouache, I suppose is a certain point, maybe for maintenance. But can you speak a little bit about how living human touch is so different to these objects?
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Great questions. Thank you. So the word of the day is going to be ixotropy. And ixotropy, we'll use the example of butter. When you put butter in your hand, it melts. When you put it back in the fridge, it gels up. There's an aspect of human anatomy that is exotropic. So when you use a tool that doesn't have a thermal heat signature, there's no exotropic interaction. So when I touch you, the heat from my hands is actually having an effect that is changing the composition.
The physical characteristics of your fascia. You can't get that from a tool.
Not only that, and I am a medical exercise specialist and I am a trainer and I have been for a long time, people tend to think that if they roll their quads out, for example, all those bumps, they believe that those are muscular knots, because that's what they've been told.
But those are actually swollen lymph nodes, and that's why rolling on the roller only hurts and doesn't actually achieve this result. People are told to roll up their quads. They would do much better to put their hands on their quadriceps, wait for a few minutes and then gently stretch the fascia, because fascia does not respond well to pressure. If you want to affect someone's fascia, a true myofascial specialist, which I am, will use the heat of their hand to put it on the body, to have the body create a connection hand to hand and begin to change the physiological composition so that when you stretch fascia, it feels like stretching warm toffee. It doesn't require force.
So I just leave that.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: You know, one of the biggest takeaways I had after our first session together was just how nurturing it was and how I, I went away from it thinking, gosh, I mean, I just want to take care of my body like it's a baby now, and, and I, I, and, and how valuable the human touch is. I mean, obviously I always knew that to a certain extent, but this took it completely to another stratosphere and I, I started to approach everything with this gentle kindness where whereas before there was this, you know, this very, I mean I, I've done a lot of martial arts and I've always been, I've always had a lot of physical power.
I needed to go out and, and you know, exert, express and build.
But it put me into a different headspace that, that now, now I, I just would never approach my body or, you know, the body at large without this critical ingredient. And so with regard to how the fascia and adipose tissue can be supported, released, you know, like this can be brought more into flow.
What would the approach be for somebody who is suffering maybe from a lot of cellulite or something that is fascia adipose tissue related?
[00:20:24] Speaker B: That's a great question. So when I look at everyone that I work with, I try to look at from the time they were born until the time I am meeting them and all circumstances in life that I am aware of and mostly unaware of.
So for someone who is carrying extra weight, there's a.
One answer is not going to satisfy because it's a multi pronged approach. You know, it food, water, exercise, self care, massage, there's, it's many, many, many things that make up good health. But in context of what you're saying, that person needs to approach their body with a gentleness.
Know that the fascia, okay, so in the BLT combination of the body, bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich, we have skin which is like bread and then we have fascia which is the next layer that's microscopic and it's actually a communication network that is viscous. But when fascia becomes dehydrated, it becomes brittle with a surface tension equal to steel.
So that fascia becomes like a glue. It's supposed to have glide. It's what keeps the heart inside the chest cavity and allows it to beat, but keeps it in place. It's what allows the brain to move in the skull but keeps it in place. So fascia has many functions and when it's healthy, we have glide in our bodies.
So part of being overweight is that the fascia is being pushed by the extra cells, the swelling, the inflammation from the poor diet. Or maybe it's not diet, maybe it's a metabolic condition like diabetes or hypothyroidism, you know, like it, it's never so easy to make its x. We have a way. I. You heard me. I had a ton of questions for you and I have more questions as you and I go along together, because I need data.
So when a person comes for lymphatic massage, it will help with reducing the swelling that's pushing against the fascia. It will help the overall process of removing toxins and creating a better immune system so that person can lose weight. It's one part of many things that has to happen. And the lymphatic drainage is a great place to start because inside that overweight body is a lot of inflammation and it's that inflammatory process that's not helping. And inflammation is not water. People think it's water weight. It's not water. It's protein filled fluid. And it can be quite heavy and we carry that around. They think it's fat, but it's this fluid. So it's, there's more than one answer to the question. I hope that satisfies you. I'm trying not to put anything in any peg in a hole because I don't view health like that. I think that we all have to find our way. And every body physically is so unique.
We have things that are the same, but everyone responds differently. So, you know, science and medicine are moving forward at a very quick rate. And manual lymphatic is becoming more and more well known as time goes on. And people who are trying to lose weight are coming in for manual lymphatic because they're finding it relieving. They come out and you felt it, you feel lighter because that heavy fluid is being moved along. It's no longer stuck inside that fascial armor, if you will, because the fascia makes that hard coating and this adipose tissue, the cellulite, it's got nowhere to go because the fascia is holding it in, if that makes sense. It's a simplified version of a greater explanation.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And you can even be rather petite. And it's, it's not only people are carrying a lot of extra weight, it's, it's, it's, it's, it can be very subtle and, but that, that, that subtleness still, when it's moved properly, when that flow takes place, that lightness can, you know, be experienced.
So, okay, so I'm sure so many people are listening to this from all over the world. And for those who might not be so close to you, specifically, what might they look for in a lymphatic or massage therapist for this kind of body contouring process and you know, to know that, that their lymphatic massage therapist is able to execute on this process that in this procedure.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Great Questions again.
So most importantly is that when you're interviewing a manual lymphatic therapist and you're seeking someone that they come credentialed. And so that's the very first thing is where did this person go to school and what are their philosophies?
So there are databases in the world. Specifically there is a place called the Academy of Lymphatic Studies in Florida, Sebastian, Florida. They have a 60 year old database and they've tracked to every therapist they've certified.
They have a service where they'll match you up based on your medical conditions if you give them a call. So it's a really great resource and I can give you the link and you can put it down below in the description as well. There's lymphatic organizations and associations around the world that have practitioners.
If you have suffered from cancer, there are lists for oncologists that oncologists refer to specifically because when it comes to cancer and lymph nodes being removed, you do not get to have a regular lymphatic massage. There's a different kind of massage protocol for that kind of individual. And so that's important to say in something like this that if you have had lymph surgery, if you have had an amputation, if you've had a mastectomy, there are now lymph nodes removed. And so you cannot have a normal manual lymphatic massage. You have to have something called anastomosis.
And so it's important to know that there are resources out there for you. And I would definitely be looking on those lists and calling people and having conversation with them. Are they going to elevate your legs? Are they going to treat you flat? Are they going to stand you up?
What do they do? How do they do it? And how is that best going to help you?
Because there's a lot of people doing all kinds of things. And I by no means know it all.
I only know what's working in my practice, which is a gentle approach.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: So a few questions to riff off of that one is that the compression lymphatic therapies were very popular for a while. I'm curious to know. I mean, I'm guessing that you're probably not crazy about those if it's medically necessitated.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: But this is what a person needs. And a doctor, physician, surgeon is saying you have to wear compression stockings, then I'm all for it.
But a person just giving themselves compression stockings, that's a different thing. That's a medical device. And so There has to be a reason.
Not just because somebody thought it was a good idea. Like, no one would just pick up a cane and start walking with a cane because they thought it looked cool.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: There has to be a reason for something like that. And I know there are a lot of people that fly and wear them and swear by them. It's a personal choice.
I have just experienced that. That's the more extreme end. And that's for someone who's suffering from some kind of lymphatic condition or some kind of metabolic condition or surgical condition. And so I wouldn't recommend somebody just run out and buy them unless they're talking to their doctor first, because they're designed to compress the lymph system to not allow the translation of fluid properly. And that's not what most of us are after. We're usually after a state of homeostasis where everything's working fine, the body's working great, and we don't have to meddle with it.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Okay. And I think maybe I should be more specific that. I'm glad you answered that. Also, though, the machines in the spas, specifically, so they're not. It's not a medical thing, just people who want to. Who think that that's going to help with their. You know, the spas will tell you that these compression machines will help with lymphatic drainage and therefore help with cellulite. And that. That was very popular for a while. I don't know if it still is, but.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: So my question would be, what is the position? Is a person sitting?
If they're sitting and their feet are down, like you and I are sitting right now?
Water can't travel up a hill.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: Yeah, no, you're usually lying down. You're usually lying down. I've had it done a few times a few years ago, and. And I just thought it was kind of uncomfortable and didn't really result in much. I didn't think, you know, especially by comparison to now, what I'm experiencing with you.
[00:29:41] Speaker B: Thank you. I'm an advocate of, yes, this is. This is the best tool. And also because I'm a human being, I have nerves, and I'm getting sensory input about the client.
I'm responding to you and the needs that you have. You said to me, I'm cold. We covered you up. You got hot. We move the COVID off your feet. You know, like the machine, it's not going to change its programming to suit the needs of the individual. It's sort of like a cookie cutter. Everybody just gets the same thing. Whereas when you use your hands, you're responding in real time to what the skin is telling you, what the limb is telling you, what the overall body is telling you.
I worked on someone yesterday, and I was moving the fluid through her abdomen gently, and I felt a tight muscle.
And I said something to her and she said, yeah, oh, yeah. I feel that that's a problem.
A machine can't respond to that.
The machine's just going to keep doing what it's doing on that treadmill sort of program where it's not going to stop, it's not going to change its stimulus. It doesn't matter what's going on in the being.
And here at Tami Fender, we're all about the being.
Every piece of you, every cell. And so my first choice is always hands.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you certainly feel it when you're in the spa.
It's so detailed that way. And gosh, what an experience.
And just so many people are coming into my world who are having explants. So I imagine that with the explant surgery, since there's so much cleansing that we're doing to, you know, to help to release all of the fungus, all of the body can. Can start to basically accumulate from the implants.
As you know, clearly we want to clear out the.
All the residue. I imagine that the lymphatic system has been so super congested with implants. Do you have any experience with that that you would like to share and how to best support someone going through explant surgery in terms of lymphatic drainage?
[00:31:56] Speaker B: Well, again, there's more questions, right? This is a big topic, and I don't think there is one. One answer.
All I would say is, yes, I work with people who are on all sides of that.
I work with people who put them in, I work with people who take them out. I work with people who have been recipients. I work with people who have injected them.
So I've sort of seen all sides. And what I would say is that it's depends what surgery's been done.
It depends what lymph channels have been affected. It depends where the scalpel was or was not.
There's no one way to say it except that if you're doing manual lymphatic drainage, it's going to help with all of that sort of stuff. And that there are certain components that are put into us that don't come out like fillers.
There's no way to get them out of the face once they're put in.
So it Depends on what we're talking about and what we're trying to get out. In terms of breast implants specifically, I would say that it depends what condition the person comes to me as. What do I see? What do they say? There's a lot of questions I have when I work with people because I want to understand them fully. So it's like a diagnostic, right? You're giving me information, I'm taking it in, I'm matriculating it through my process of what I think is going to help you best.
I know one woman, she had a set of implants put in.
She got cancer, she took them out. She had a double mastectomy, she had a rebuild. She took those out, she had a second rebuild. So again, I have cases on all sides.
All I can say is that we all need to follow our instincts and we need to do things that resonate with us and we need to do our research.
We need to be certain that whatever we're discovering and whatever we're practicing is in line with what we think we believe and want.
So in the example of having the implants taken out, question number one, did one burst?
Was there fluid in you?
You know, like it starts another. It's. It's a question that leads to more questions, not more answers.
So I would just encourage everyone to be thorough in their research process and look for studies, look for nationally vetted studies, and don't just believe what we hear. Do your own research. Be your own best advocate. I'm sure these are things you've said before, because you and I know there's a lot of things out there. And so with implant surgery, it's impossible to answer your question without having a person in front of me because it's so specific. Lymphatic drainage will help get that stuff out, provided that it can come out. Depends what the implant was made of, what year was it put in, how long was it in, what size was it, what size were you? All that sort of stuff. Because we're trying to create some sort of path of information to make it logical so that we're having a logical approach to helping someone.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess a few. It does. I just mean, like, generally speaking, there will obviously be details and everyone is so unique and has their own background. But just from an overarching standpoint, I would imagine that it would be of significant benefit to anyone who has had any kind of surgeries we spoke about earlier, but specifically this explant trend, let's call it, yes, seek out some lymphatic Drainage in addition to everything else that they're doing. Because I, I know that there's usually those who are having the explants. What I'm seeing in my practice, those who are having it, are having it because they've come to a new awareness about what, you know, what self care is really about and what beauty is really about. And, and, and, and they're nurturing their body in a whole new way. So they're implementing all of these very holistic modalities.
But it seems to me like if this one is included, they're missing out on something significant. Maybe that's one way of putting it.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Because it's surgical intervention. It was certain. So when those implants were put in, those women were given drains, and the drains were surgically put into them and stitched in so that the fluid would drain into bags. That's the truth.
When you get a breast reduction, it's the same thing. You're swelling so much, the lymph system can't handle it. They actually drain you with these devices.
So when they're getting the implants taken out, there's going to be lymphatic issues. The lymph system is going to need help. But no person should engage in lymphatic drainage if they're under the care of a surgeon without the surgeon's explicit permission.
So anybody who's doing this, you don't just get to run out and start working with the lymphatic drainage specialist. If you're in this process, you need to clear it with your surgeon, you need to clear it with your physician. You need to make sure that it's the right time, because there needs to be a certain amount of time given surgically before you can start doing something like this. So it needs to be supervised for sure. And you want to be making sure that the care team and the lymphatic drainage specialist are all on the same page so that the patient gets the best outcome.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Thank you, Rose. And I know I only have you with, like, one more minute, but I just know that everyone's going to have this one burning question. So I've got to ask you, because you've met. You mentioned injections with regard to. Because I've always noticed that with people who get these injections. So there's the fillers and there's Botox and all these things.
I noticed that when people get them there, they wind up getting this grainy look around the chin area.
It's almost as if there's a migration of the Residue from the fillers down in the face. And I would love to know if you have, what can you tell us about how the fillers and Botox affect the lymph?
[00:38:08] Speaker B: Well, let's just put it this way. It's a non anatomical substance.
And so anytime we put things into the body that don't belong, the results, although might be beautifying to begin with.
The long term research is what I look at. I look at 30 years later, 25 years later, not today, not 10 years from now, but what is the research that they're finding today?
And so anytime we're adding to the body something that's non anatomical, it's not always a good thing.
And I never judge anyone. So if that's a choice a person is making and that's what they want to do, I'm not going to tell them my opinion unless they ask. It's a very personal choice. As you know, this thing that we own, we're in charge of it.
But I just, my personal view is that we have enough with illness, sickness and disease that we are putting things into our body all the time.
And so those products in the beauty industry, on the long haul, perhaps not so helpful.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: And there's many sites out there that can expose the entire truth. And that's a whole other conversation. But I would move to that area very cautiously as terms of a recipient.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I always, I always want people who are even thinking along those lines to try cleansing first and see how much they shapeshift and morph as it is. And lymphatic is obviously totally integral to the cleansing process. But to be able to do some facial contouring, lymphatic contouring on the face, seems like that would work hand in glove with the cleansing process as not as a dramatically superior alternative to injecting something non anatomical into the body.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, again, there are people who want a fast result and so they're going to take that quick fix. And then there's some people who want the longer, more natural, holistic approach and they're going to maybe go towards manual lymphatic. And so manual lymphatic is just a slower road that works more homogeneously with the body's natural processes. And it's more of a holistic approach rather than injecting something into the body that arguably doesn't actually belong there.
And.
[00:40:45] Speaker A: The body. And, and what's been amazing too is that the adjustments, the, the contouring that you'll do in a session are maintained. It's not as if, you know, you have the session and then everything goes back to. It's. Unless, of course, you go and consume things that are going to imbalance your fluids again. But I thought that was amazing, too, to know that just to give people that sense of hope that, you know, it's. It's not. There is something that can restructure the body and support the body, and it will stay in place. So even though the one may have a handful of sessions in order to get that end result, the results that are being produced and created in that in individual sessions are meaningful and. And remain in. In place along the way.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's permanent because we're actually working with the body. We're not doing anything that's adversarial or aggressive. We're working with the natural process of the anatomy, and we're helping it along. You know, I always. I'm here to help the body with what it naturally does, and that's our approach here at Tami Fender.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: I want everyone to experience this and to know that this is an option and, you know, to ideally come and see you and know what the pinnacle experience is and then, you know, be able to maintain that wherever they are in the world as well.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. I. I adore working with you as well. Lots of fun.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Rose. And I'm sure there'll still be a lot of questions, and maybe we'll do around too.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: I would love that. I'd be honored. Thank you for having me. And I. I look forward to seeing you very, very soon.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Same here. You're such a blessing.
[00:42:26] Speaker B: Thank you. And to you. Bye.
