Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: I met Michelle Bleckner over 15 years ago. First as the mother of my dear friend Masha Einbender, with whom back in the day, I hosted a podcast before they were called such things.
Some of you will remember the countless audio broadcasts Masha and I produced over the course of a few years, circa 2007, 8 and 9.
In that time, I discovered that Masha's mom, Michelle Bleckner, happened to be a master past life regression therapist and family Constellation therapist. Naturally, I had to experience Michelle's gifts myself.
Well, needless to say, Michelle absolutely blew me away in both capacities.
We stayed in touch and all these years later, I have to say it is the most enormous privilege to be able to interview Michelle on this podcast and share her with you.
Michelle's background is as remarkable as she is.
Michelle was born in France in 1943.
A year later, her father was deported to Auschwitz.
Her mother kept her and her family in hiding until the end of the war.
It's an incredible survival story that would make Michelle an ideal therapist for generational and cultural traumas later on in life.
Her career in psychology began in the international business market research world in Paris.
But Michelle's ultimate purpose would eventually bring her to the United States, where she would evolve into a spiritual leader, life counselor, and cutting edge Family Constellations practitioner. Welcome, Michelle.
Would you like to begin by telling us about Family Constellations therapy and why you took it on so passionately?
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Okay. The first thing I'd like to say, and I thank you for this introduction, it's a lot, but it's normal when you think that I just turned 80. So it's a long Life Constellation is not a therapy, it's a therapeutic philosophy.
This is the way that the. The gentleman that developed this modality called it. And I think he's right because in a way, consolation is not an end, it's the beginning, it's a start.
It's interesting because a lot of people ask how many consolations should I do? Or whatever? And you know what? There is no answer because we are a work in progress.
Like I said before, I turn 80 and I still have some haha moment for me when I am working with somebody else. Because we all connected, so we benefit from each other's experience.
And this is what is beautiful incarceration is that nothing happened by chance. It's all ruled by what we call the field, which we can call universe, God, Mickey Mouse, it doesn't matter source. But this is what it's all about. It's all in here. For us to be inspired by the goal with constellation, and I will say systemic work, because the gentleman that developed it, his name is Bertellinger, he passed away four years ago.
But what his intention was to look at generational trauma.
Because working in tribes in Africa, actually with a Zulu as a missionary and a priest, he saw that rather than converting them, which was the goal, he was converted by their ways. It's interesting to know that Zulu means cosmos.
So, yeah, it's interesting. So he saw that by reuniting the tribe, it's why we do a lot of groups, but it can also be done privately, one on one.
And going through the constellation of the person, which is the movement of the generations, we could find ways of understanding what was happening in the present.
When we look at what happened in the past, we understand why patterns are repetitive, why trauma are felt sometimes three, four, five, six generations later, and how we can explain worst fear of people just because one of their ancestors had had this experience.
One of the question that I like to pose, which is I like to ask, which is upon my training with one of my teacher, Mark Wolland, that wrote this beautiful book, it did not start with you, is what is your worst fear?
And when we talk about our worst fear, we really have an incredible gift there.
Because, for example, my worst fear was to be put in jail for something I did not do. And the key was thrown.
And I realized in doing incarceration, that is exactly what happened to my father.
You just say he was in osw. What was that? He did not do anything wrong. But being Jewish and being in jail and he did not know if he would get out of there. It's very interesting to see our experiences in life are very often brought by the experience of our ancestors.
And that helps understand why our life is not working 100% in the domain. And it really is an incredible tool and. And a fast tool because. And it's why I say it's not therapy. We're not therapists in doing constellation or systemic work, which goes for business, which goes for societies, which go for cultures.
We are facilitating the people in finding more about themselves, finding more about where they come from so they can understand where they're going.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Discovering their patterns based on where they came from. And the patterns repeat through the family line.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Yes, it's one of the. Yes. Yeah.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: So you'll have. You'll. What are some of the patterns that you see Repeat that people will easily identify with?
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Okay.
One of the greatest patterns is feeling rejected or abandoned or not confident or whatever in Consolation. We notice that what's happening generation after generation in systems is that we cover up.
We don't talk about.
We don't talk about the people that lost a child very early because it's too painful for them, so we.
And this child gets forgotten.
We don't talk about the uncle that roll under the table when he's drunk, so we don't invite him for Thanksgiving, he's rejected. We don't talk about all these kind of things that are too painful, too shameful, too delicate to talk about. We feel that is a way of being polite. And by being polite, we really kill ourselves.
And what's happening is that very often we have a tendency to say that what we don't know don't hurt, and it's not true. What we don't know can hurt a lot. Because what's happening is that generations later, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Because this is really the impacting generations.
You're going to have someone as a loyal little soldier for the family system that is going to expose it.
Are they going to expose it by Billy? By being unconsciously doing exactly the same thing that ancestors that got forgotten or rejected or completely ignored? You see, this is what people are suffering.
Illnesses, old, broken marriages, you name it. Yeah.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: So you have that sort of the black sheep in the family, the person who, like, stirs things up. And then is that the same person or is that a different person to the one who is there to heal that family line? Because it seems like there's also every so often, someone who comes into the family who's actually capable of doing the healing. Is that right?
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah. We have a tendency to say that the black sheep, the rebel in the system, is often the one that shake these things up and make. And break through. Yes. Yeah.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: But then, so. So where the audience that's listening is so focused on their healing, on the, you know, on being a part of being a contributing force for the collective's healing, but focusing first on themselves, recognizing their patterns, recognizing their shadows, recognizing their family histories, and all that needs to be brought into alignment, that has been interfered with.
Is. Would you say that when a person comes in with our soul, comes in that is focused on such a degree of healing without being dissuaded by all the reasons that someone might not want to do that, it's because they're there to do a deeper ancestral healing for the family line?
[00:10:29] Speaker B: My. My way of looking at things, because like everybody else, I have my own intuitive mind to work with, is that, first of all, I think we all come with a purpose and our purpose is different. And sometimes we achieve it, sometimes we don't.
It took me a while, for example, to get into what I am doing. I was not born with the intention, or maybe I was, but I ignored it. I did not know to do what I'm doing today. I was in business for many years in my life when I. When I use psychology for business rather than for.
But somehow, because I was exposed to different, I would say psychic happening. I had. I had some episode where I. I asked myself, what's going on there? What's. So I search and I became involved in listening and working with a lot of teachers and finding out that there is things that. That we don't always understand at first sight but are very important to navigate and go grow this understanding. I feel that this is the way and I'm very grateful to my very tenacious soul that pushed me. A lot of people go on their life without finding their purpose because they sometimes blinded by those generational or cultural or societal trauma.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Right?
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
We have to address it. Yeah.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: That's amazing. So the very things that, like there's. I think it was Joseph Campbell who said, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek. Sometimes it's the very things that we're nervous about that are really going to hold our purpose.
Okay. And in terms of. I don't want to. There's so many things I want to ask you in this regard. But the issues that come up physiologically, illnesses and symptoms, are they. Can they. If, for example, someone really does their best to heal themselves by living a clean life and living by the universal laws, and yet they're still struggling with niggling symptoms and things, could that be not so much something that's been inherited as an illness purely physiologically, but could it be something that's being carried through the traumas and patterns of that family line? For example, in another self in the show that everyone's watching, by the way, in the group, Ada had that tremor in her hand and then after some family constellation work, the tremor went away.
She was clearly carrying that as a previous family pattern trauma.
Do you see that often or what would you have to say about that?
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Sure, all the time. And the trembling Parkinson, for example, there is a sign that the family system got shaken at one time, like a earthquake. Really, it's very understanding. And we see that in a lot of family.
Where I'm going to give you there is no better than personal example when. When I was already a Facilitator of consolation.
And I turned 17, I started having mobility problems and of course I say, gotta do a consolation.
So I asked someone that was doing Constellation too, because it's like a lawyer, the consulator, that consolidate themselves as a fool, as a client.
Things can come spontaneously. But since I was doing an exercise, I wanted somebody to do it for me. So I asked my fellow facilitator and I say, look, let's see what's going on there. Because we don't know, even when we know, we don't know it this way, if you understand what I mean. We might have information about our families and everything else, but. But in a way we don't see it that way, because we don't have the formation to do. She had a line of women because of course the leg that was irritating me was the right leg. So we knew that it was coming from the left, a deficiency from the left. The left is the feminine side. Why? Because it's the side of the heart.
So it's where the mother is behind you, the right is the father, is direction. So when you imagine your system, it's good to feel your parents behind you, your mother on the left, your father on the right. So she had a line of woman, okay, from my mother's family.
And she asked me to take something very heavy and to give it back.
There is something about giving it back to our ancestors. They there for that. We have a tendency to say non physical is overstaffed and under work.
So they have all the time in the world.
So she told me to give it to my mother.
And my mother took it with no charge, nothing.
Then I took it back, I gave it to my grandmother, same thing, very nicely. The person that was representing my grandmother took it, but it was no problem.
And then all of a sudden I found myself in front of the person that was representing my grand great mother.
And wow, I had a download immediately, okay?
And I realized that actually because of the very small difference in age with my mother, my grandmother, my great grandmother. I was 13 when she passed away at 73.
And I recall that the two last year of her life, she was bedridden, she could not walk.
And I made immediately the connection.
She was a businesswoman, just as I been. She was very generous with her grandchildren.
She was a strong woman, she was not a petite woman. I saw so many similitudes. And I say, oh my God, this is my grandmother, my great grandmother.
And I gave it back to her, did a ceremony, because consolation is a lot of little ritual that we do. And I did a ritual and I did it for a while and I start doing more. At the time I lived in Miami. I went to the pool every day. So I exercise more and everything else. And not only I did not die at 73, but I'm still working.
And with age I have more difficulty. I walk with a cane, but I walk.
This is the type of thing that we observe in Constellation.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: A lot of questions just from that. Thank you for sharing that, first of all. Now often we can immediately sense that we don't have the strength of either or both our mother or father because they were dysfunctional, they weren't present. Maybe we never knew them, all these different factors.
So how do we. If we were not able to lean back on our parents and they were not able to lean back on their parents, and yet everything was put upon us, how do we even begin that process? And all the patterns that we carry, all the weaknesses that we carry that come from that, let's say that flipped natural pattern.
Where do we begin with that?
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Constellation is all about love and order. Okay.
So it's important when they wear dysfunctions in the system to re establish to. It's all about reconciliation in a way.
The beauty of it is that as very early in life I was very fortunate to be exposed to Abraham Hicks. And with them and other teachers, of course, I really learned about universal laws and the way we think create. We are creators. Okay? So the way we think create. The only thing that Constellation really gave me, which is a big thing, is that in a way we only live with 20% of conscious mind. The rest is unconscious.
What's we don't know, we cannot deal with a full tank. So when we are consolidating and when we go through our system and we know very well what has happened, parents divorce or father that we don't know or adopted child. We have all kind of different way to come to life with the. With our own baggage. Okay?
So what's happening is that we have to reconcile with that.
And that is the job of the facilitator to do it with the client in a way that is beautiful honoring.
And I have to say that this facilitator has different way of doing it. I feel very fortunate about the knowledge about universal laws, where everything.
I'm seeing more on the sunny side of the street, so I have the ability to. To bring people in more positivity.
Some facilitators do it differently. The beauty of it is that consolation is not strict.
It's got skills it's got some techniques, some knowledge that we have to have. But after that you can really navigate a little bit the way that you feel.
And this is all about your relationship with the field, your relationship with the universe, with God. So that is important.
And when we do this reconciliation, we do it in a way that is not unobtrusive to people. That. Because sometimes the anger or the, the frustration that people can have for those kind of situation is different from one person to another.
You have people that say, I don't want to talk about the bastard when they talk about their dad that left before even birth or things like that, oh, my mother suffered or my mother was a bitch or all kind of things. It's very. You have to have the facility to bring those people to understand that it's for their benefit to have a reconciliation with their parents, even if it's only energetic.
This is the beauty of it that it doesn't have to, you don't have to have dinner with them or spend Christmas next, but have the way of understanding, okay, what happened to have the possibility of really connecting who is their pain and let it go, let it go.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: And then once, okay, and just to back up a little bit, if I'm getting this right, and please correct me, there's this constellation of all the individuals in the family. There's. They're all in these various places in their roles, and they're these threads or cords or lines that connect each one to one another.
And if they are broken down or they, their choices are not favorable or life generating, those threads start to lose their integrity and they get lost, they get distanced. And then the strength, the integrity of the fabric of the family, of the constellation becomes weaker, just like you would have in the body, just like you'd have in the mind.
So through having this kind of session facilitated, you can recognize where those things may have occurred and begin the reconciliation process. So those threads can be reconnected and maybe gain some integrity in the future so that you have a strong family rather than a weak family.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: And the beauty of it is that then in a way you working as a keeper of the gate for your children, do not inherit those issues because sometimes it might jump a generation.
But then your children can have children that are going to have the anxiety of the, of the ancestor that left a pogrom in Poland, or the anxiety or the eating disorder of somebody that left Irish, that left Ireland because of famine. So it's all connected. Our cultures have their own issues.
And especially it's interesting when you live in America because in America people come from all different countries. And I was privileged to work for 13 years in Miami.
Really, you can see people from everywhere. I counted that in my living room in Miami, I had people from 70 different countries.
You understand and you feel with the culture, the tradition, the history of the countries. And it's amazing because you see how history repeats itself.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: It's just remarkable. That is so remarkable. And the fact that we can do so much to restore, to reconcile, to regenerate the constellation just by doing this work.
With all that in mind, what does a session look like for someone who. I mean, actually let me back up. It sounds. And again, just please correct me if I'm off track, but there's the conscious trauma, there's the conscious experiences that we know we've had that are part of our story. We'd say I've been sexually abused or I was in a violent family, or I was abandoned by my parents or whatever. And those are the things we know because we actually lived through it. And. But then there's the unconscious trauma that we've received, we've inherited, that we're not aware of, but yet it's causing us to act out in these various ways. How in the session or how in the series of sessions, in the work that's being facilitated in these sessions does that unconscious trauma or those unconscious experiences behind that actually appear? How do you find them?
[00:26:06] Speaker B: It's several answer to your questions. Okay. And my experience is that with the.
The core language. The core language is language of the heart.
When people are in the situation, in the constellation situation, may they be privately talking to you? Okay.
And I do both. I do one on one consolation and I do group consolation. It's two different animal. And I think that both are very valuable.
There are questions that are going to open up the road and you are going. I just mentioned before the worst fear thing.
To give you an example. I was one day with someone very quickly with the great grandparents.
I had found out because I asked question about.
A lot of people don't know really what happened in past their grandparents, especially in the United States, because it's a country where people want to forget. They wanted to let behind, to leave behind.
You hear stories or whatever. And this woman knew about her great grandparents. And she told me that great grandmother had come as a young woman with her fiance and her young brother. Okay. The parents in Russia or Poland, I don't know where it was, had put them on a boat to United States.
And because they felt that they had to stay. They had to stay for their business. People don't realize, but they wanted their children to have a better life.
And what the mother did, she opened up the lining of the coat of the young boy who was 17 brother. And she put all the money and the. The jewelry, the silverware that she could find valuable.
And she saw it back and they left on the boat. And the consolation had last a while already. We were talking because usually a private consolation take an hour and a half. And I knew that our worst fear was drowning. And I had asked her if she knew anybody that had drowned in her family. She said, no, nobody had drowned. Nobody would have. The problem was that she will make a lot of money and lose it. Make a lot of money and lose it.
And then at one point, we were really getting in the deep of thing. And I say, so what happened? What happened with your grandparents? I was looking for the money thing.
And then she told me that story that came back of. And she say that the young brother.
At one point the boat changed route because they were going by mistake to Canada.
And it was a big movement in the boat. And the kid that was looking over fell and drowned with the money.
Wow.
So the connection then was that.
I mean, after that she had no problem anymore.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: She saw where her fear originated.
It wasn't a hidden fear anymore. It was visible.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: Exactly. So I made her do a ritual and everything else and everything was fine. And we see that day in and day off. It's incredible because sometimes she knew that in the back of her mind, but she had to be reconnected with it because it was not part of her life.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: Wow. That's a. It's such a good example. The story, you witnessed it, but it never connected your fear and your. Whatever it was that was incapacitating your progress as being connected to that moment when you absorbed that experience.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: That's extraordinary. Thank you for sharing that. As per.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: So that you said there were several ways that this could.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: I'm giving you one example.
But it's. It's amazing. For me, Constellation has been an incredible. And think about it. It also goes with business.
The importance in Constellation, again, I would never repeat enough. It's a question of order. If the CEO of a company.
Okay.
Doesn't is being in this company for two years and all of a sudden things are not working well. And everything else very often is because it doesn't honor the founder.
The founder has to be honored.
The founder has to be recognized the same way that the parents, the grandparents have to be recognized, they have to have a part because we come from them.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: Hierarchy. It's honoring the roles of the hierarchy.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: Absolutely, yes. Consolation is about order.
And if the family is in disorder, then things cannot work well. It's about reconciling. It's about honoring, honoring life. You can find that your mother has been through terrible, and she was smothering you, or she was mistreating you, whatever. She gave you life.
And for that you have to recognize her. Your father can be the worst person in the world and everything else. Without him, you will not be here.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: So how does one reconcile a situation where a parent is, or by still, let's say, a dangerous energy field for
[00:32:18] Speaker B: them and honor them.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: I'm sorry, interrupt you and yet honor them, as you suggest.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And that is often very challenging because in the case of parents being divorced, okay. And mistreating each other, the child is the victim.
Okay. Because.
And this is a very simple example, if you are separated from the father of your child, okay, as a woman, and you talk badly about the father, what's happening?
Half of this child feels bad because half of this child is the father. If the father is doing that and bad mouthing the mother, and your mother is this and your mother is that, the other half is affected.
So what's left of the child?
Nothing.
The child is empty.
And sometimes, very often with boys, the boy is going to be the partner of the mother, which will really not let him have a relationship, a successful relationship with a partner later, or the daughter becomes daddy's girl.
And it's the same thing that she cannot be happy with a man in her life later. It's so many things that can really, even in the life of the people today.
And of course, it's linked to what happened before, but it has to be. Look also at what's happening today in the family system, in the organization, in a country, whatever happened individually, work for the collective.
The whole is always important at the sum of the part.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: Okay, and I want to go back to. Thank you. I want to go back to what you were saying just before about honoring the parents, the grandparents, et cetera. There are many in this audience who are bringing order and peace and harmony and integrity to their lives, despite the fact that they were raised in very chaotic environments and mistreated by people in their family.
So here they are having to create a bit of a bubble for themselves until they become strong enough to have firm boundaries with these individuals.
And for some of them, the kinds of crimes and egregious actions that They've been exposed to do to these individuals have been so bad that they actually can't just open the door to them and even have a hope for a normal relationship necessarily, maybe a hope. That's the extent of it. So they can do this healing. Imagine that they would come and work with you, for example, and have some. Some reconciliation, some understand some realizations, bring to consciousness things that were unconscious, maybe, and certainly have the theoretical respect for these individuals, their parents or their grandparents or their uncles or their brothers and sisters.
But if these individuals still misbehave and they know that they can't open their lives to them, how does that work? Or is there a kind of miraculous imagine in some cases there would be. And if energetically things are healed, then that may manifest externally as well.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Just absolutely, you're right. Because we know that we have a power of influence on.
On things. Because as Wayne Dyer said, when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.
And that is important to know. We have a power of influence, the power of changing things. But not completely and not. And this is not the goal. The goal is not to change people. It's to change self and to have a different ability to deal with this.
And again, it's. It's a work. Look, there's so many philosophy and so many ho ho, ponopono, for example, this the way. And those things are powerful. And this is why in consolation, I like to use every tool in my toolbox, okay? We see what works with one person or another.
And again, like I say, it's not science.
It's really a lot of intuitive ability to understand people, to understand what they go through and be gentle enough with them, to make them understand that they work with the future.
We always work with the future.
We work for the children we work for. And this affect in a beneficiary way, not only our children, but also our careers, our health, our financial state.
In constellation, we work a lot in relationship. And this relationship with everything. A relationship with money, the relationship with health, relationship with friends or partners, etc. Besides the technique, there is also the ability to gently accompany people in their reconciliation mode right now. And it's the ability to acknowledge what is. We spoke at the beginning of this, this conversation. We spoke about the war, osw, whatever. My big. My big project right now is to bring reconciliation with that, with the Holocaust, okay? It's important because I'm working with a lot of German young generations right now, as I was recently.
I always had people from all country But. And I had a lot of client German, but much more now because I have worked with Tony Robbins. So it brought me even a more international audience than before.
And working with a lot of young generation of German people, still 30s or 40s, we know that automatically the people that were involved with the Holocaust in a negative way in Germany were their grandparents or their great grandparents in some cases.
But what I have noticed is that there is a strong unconscious or conscious guilt from the young generations, and it's not fair.
And you see that. And maybe I have noticed that more because of my position as a Jewish woman, having suffered from the war and everything else my family had. But in a lot of societies that people are carrying guilt, that has nothing to do with them.
Maybe not even nothing to do with the people that they feel guilty about because they had no choices.
So it's important to reconcile individually, because it affects the collective.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
And that is.
So when we talk about individually, family of two days that people have suffered from sexual abuse or physical abuse, being beaten up really badly by their parents, whatever, what is important is to understand what did that come from?
What is it that they carried that made them felt so impotent and that they had to react this way. And maybe in understanding that, you can not go, like I say, and spend next Thanksgiving together, but you can at least say, look, you're my father and I thank you for the gift of life.
You're my mother.
I thank you because without you, I would not be here. And you don't have to tell them to them directly to their face, but you can make peace in your heart because it's all come with you.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: You find the genuine gratitude. It's genuine gratitude. I can thank you for this much and I can mean it, and I'm
[00:41:43] Speaker B: going to do something with it.
I'm going to do something with it that is positive from that that I experience.
I say thank you because it gives me the platform to do something good with my life.
[00:42:01] Speaker A: And it changes your vibration instantly when you get into that zone. Even I had my line, my maternal grandfather was, let's just say, a piece of work. And I can say thank you for giving my mother life, because I thank her for giving me life. So I can even.
And I can instantly feel my vibration change into. When the strength and power lost, power gets restored, and all this comes flooding back when there's no longer this sense of animosity that you're carrying because it gets heavy. You carry that long enough, it's how long am I going to Resent this person for being the kind of person that he was. Rather find something to be able to be grateful for and lift that vibe right up. But I want to go back also to the awareness is so what really blows my mind is how we can get so stuck on our own stories without realizing that these things get passed to us and we're so unconscious. So being able to bring them to consciousness and find the awareness. But I'm interested about how the trauma or the experience that was had by our ancestors travels forward. Is it in our DNA? Is it in an unseen. Is it in the field? In the force. Force field. Like where is it because. And how do we even. Is there. Is there any other indication? Like the question about my. What is my greatest fear is great. Maybe also some of our strengths are coming. Like we have. We probably have as many unconscious powers as we have what we would perceive as weaknesses or insufferable kind of issues because we also can find so much strength through our ancestors. I know when I was going through my ordeal, as I like to call it, I know that my grandmother who left Russia and made the pilgrimage to America at the turn of the last century, last century, she had these guts and gusto and this ability. And I just kept on thinking about her and my father, who was a heavyweight or a boxer, he was a fighter. And I found the fight by thinking about them and the fight they had.
And it gave me strength. Whether I was. It was completely delusional to find it there, but I could find it there. But how does it travel? Where does it come from?
How does it move forward?
[00:44:21] Speaker B: You mentioned DNA.
So it's genes, it's in our genes, but it's also in the epigenetics.
And the epigenetics is everything that is around. I mentioned the book. It did not start with you by Mark Roland. It's a very important book. I is really. We're mentioning another self, this series. You can see this book all around, of course, with the title in Turkish because it's as a Turkish series. But this is what is all about is that we carry it. And what's happening is that we acknowledge when we can acknowledge what is.
Is the first step to healing.
And for example, my first consultation I did it was a very amazing thing because I realized that I had carried this label that I put on myself of child, of survivor, that create situation to survive all my life.
So every time it was like, wow, I did it. But it's exhausting.
And when I discovered that and the facilitators showed me at the time that this is what I've been doing because of all those kids that did not make it. The millions of Jewish children that died in concentration camp. And I was alive.
And it touches me each time she made me say something.
She made me say, I will live my life in your honor.
And that changed everything.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: Yeah. You're able to be a representative, full of life for them.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: If I was given life, I was going to do what they could not do.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And you've done it. Think about the countless people you've been able to heal through the reconciliation. You did it. You were a proxy for how many.
[00:46:42] Speaker B: And this is my goal. I continue to do it. This is what it is.
And in a way, I realized through consolation that in fact, having been a victim of those things, having my father, my grandfather, all the people in my life, having been a victim gave me the compassion and because I am very strong and I always had a voice and I'm. And use it and everything else is the part of the perpetrator.
Okay. And that has given me my determination.
So I am like you. I'm a victim and a perpetrator. Because we all have it in ourselves.
We all have it. And I was tough when I was young, before I was really discovering about consciousness and about. It was a tough thing because my father came back from concentration camp and he said there is no God because he could not be a God and allow what happened. So I was really raised without any kind of spirituality and everything else. And I'm a Taurus. I'm a strong and really.
So I was not an easy person to deal with. And I realized that actually, yes, we all have a little bit of victim and perpetrator energy. The same way that we have dark and light and good and bad and strong and weak. We live in a universe of polarity. So we have those polarity between us. What is important is to do. Rumi say, beyond the realm of right and wrong, there is a field.
I meet you there.
Beautiful.
[00:48:36] Speaker A: Wow. So I think what I'm taking away from this one of the many things. But the remarkable concept that we are all 7 billion of us are moving through this life with all of this history and all these imprints and all this inheritance that we're totally unaware of.
And if only that could light up like a pinball game. Like I get that. I see that we're like. Like we don't even know ourselves. So the old the adage know thyself the in the Delphi Oracle of Delphi. How can we know ourselves if we don't know this, if we don't know what's been, what we've received, our inheritance that we're unaware of and again take up a popularity, good and bad, like we're missing a fortune as much as we're missing the awareness of the things that are holding us back. And how would that influence the state of our being if we knew it?
[00:49:41] Speaker B: It's.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: It's so unfathomable, really.
[00:49:44] Speaker B: It's, it's.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: It's meteoric.
We couldn't even get our heads around how different we would be if we actually have that knowledge. And all it takes is to start tapping into it. Having a facilitator who really knows what they're doing, AKA you, to provide that process that, that hold space for us to come to that awareness.
Is that more or less the case?
[00:50:11] Speaker B: More or less is what it is. And I guess we attract the facilitator that we supposed to attract that there is plenty of them. Thank God. Now, I am all for spreading the word and this is what I've been doing because I think it's such an important modality. It's an incredible tool for therapists for people that are doing psychotherapy. I love to train people that are already working with people on the couch for years and years because that gives them incredible tools. So I will really all people, coaches, therapists, a social worker, anybody that is in the business or the purpose, and sometimes both of it, to healing people in the world to really have this ability to understand and to navigate because it's incredibly rewarding.
And it was interesting because yesterday I had a little group here and of people that never did Constellation before and it's always very rewarding to do that.
So I know for a fact that as long as I have the strength to do it, I will do it and bring more people to the surface. Yeah, it's.
[00:51:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the fact that you are in this position and strong, stronger than ever. You haven't changed since I met you 15 years ago. If anything, you're more in your power. You glow even more. And just God bless you for being here and doing this and providing what you do. And you can do it. I know you've done it with me over the phone now. Zoom. That was so many years ago before we did this sort of thing on cameras and in person. So there's. And maybe you can tell us how to find you, how to reach. I can show everyone your website, of course, which we'll do. And. But if there's any particular anything.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: I'm not that techy. I'm not that techy. But yeah, no, I. I welcome anybody that make the choice of going, you know, deeply into their system.
I know that you are in West Bank Palm Beach. I also travel a lot. I've been in Miami in August for an entire week working and training people.
So this is in my calendar and I do that here. I do a lot of Zoom so it's easy to find me or to find constellator in your neck of the wood as well.
And what with me my curiosity. And I do believe that curiosity is important because I very strong with word and in curiosity there's cure. This is the healing part of the curiosity of going into the unknown and always opening up new doors. I always been a visionary and seeing things happening.
I immediately switch when we had the pandemic from live to Zoom. Even though I'm not techie at all. But when it's important, I found the way. This is my determination.
So what I want to say is that we always find the way when we feel strongly supported.
So my advice to anyone that is on the line is to really consider themselves like building or rebuilding a house. This is how I do in my coaching and I say it all the time. You need pillars for a house to be strong. We need pillars. And meditation is very important because when you meditate, okay, you getting messages when you do it regularly, those messages come from the field. So they really are inspiring and it brings your connection with the universe. When we get this connection, we appreciate it with the third pillar. And appreciating is. It's important because it raise your vibrational frequency to love.
And there you do your intentions and intention is choosing what you like to see in your life.
I choose and this is what is all about. I choose for this modality to be spread all over the world because I think it's really an incredible tool.
And I'm participating to that. And by my choices and my intentions. I've been invited to do podcasts with you, with other people. I've been invited to Tony Robbins to be a guest speaker and to talk in front of a few hundred people. This is what is all about. And for what and whomever is listening your intentions to know more about your life, where you come from. What is it that is giving you the sometimes handicap to do it. What is the hurdles where they and to find them and to really go and overcome them.
It's the goal because you benefit yourself, you benefit your children, you Benefit your career, you benefit your employers, whatever it is, the organizations, everything. And health. Of course.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you, Michelle. And if someone just wants to get started immediately, they can just reach out to you and, and start having private sessions.
And when you mentioned that the new trainings or the upcoming trainings are on your calendar, do you mean your personal calendar? Are they actually on the website calendar?
[00:56:21] Speaker B: Everything is on the website, more or less. Because like I say, I'm not very good technologically but there's some information and what I do with training, I really, every time I work with somebody is training and I do training in Miami because they asked me, they had been working there for a while. I trained a lot of people already there. But you know, at my stage of the game I'm 80, so I don't know, I don't like to do things that are long term things because I don't know if I'm going to be there. It's really very interesting because somebody asked me to officiate their wedding in Las Vegas in April 24th and they say will you really, really important for me, will you do it? I said, if I'm alive, I come.
[00:57:15] Speaker A: So we should all be saying that actually nothing's given. Yeah.
[00:57:21] Speaker B: So I'm not making long term project.
But what I do is I always tell people it takes about 120 hours of techniques learning for being a facilitator in consolation.
Because 20% is techniques, 80% is intuition, 500% is practice going to consolation working with different teachers, working with different, working with on different what you call topics like relationship, illness, et cetera, et cetera.
So. Or business because a lot of people are interested in business and it's important consolation in business. And there is a couple of books that are for people that are interested in that. One of the master for it is Jan Jacobstad. I trained with him. I went four times in the Netherlands back in 2015.
It's systemic leadership and systemic coaching. Very good book as well.
So reading Alinger's books, of course he wrote a lot of books. Many of them are translated in English as they been translated and published by another one of my teachers that I recommend, Suzy Tucker, she's wonderful. And I train actually with Susie Tucker and Mark Wallen and I worked with Erlinger several times. I worked with a lot of teachers because I like the variety. It was like a big smorgasbord and you pick here, you pick there and you put a little bit of your own dressing, which is the way I like to deal with I feel that people that want to learn about this, to come to groups, to do private stuff to do.
There's something that I do it on Monday morning, which is also like a little group because some people can. Cannot. But I do it religiously every Monday morning from 11 to 1 Eastern Time. It's called you are. I am. And it's. It's like a collective coaching constellation base, universal law, treated meeting. And this is my participation.
[00:59:49] Speaker A: That's awesome. That is so awesome.
Wow. Michelle, you've been so generous to share your time and your knowledge with us today. Can't thank you enough.
[00:59:57] Speaker B: My pleasure. Anytime. I love you and I know you do a great job and it's very, very proud of what you do. So. Good, good.
[01:00:06] Speaker A: Thank you. I love you too. And Masha, your daughter is such a dear friend of mine and it's just such a special connection.
[01:00:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's wonderful to see all this young generation of people like you, Masha, and. And so many others that really doing a lot of work in. In kind of planting the seeds. Because it's all about planting the seeds.
Yeah. And then the flowers will bloom.
Yeah.
[01:00:34] Speaker A: And bringing awareness through that. And just to think how. How much we can improve our lives, improve the lives of our children, improve the collective's experience, bring something completely new, fresh, vitalizing, and just rich with life force into the field just by seeing what it longs to be seen, what's calling out to be seen. I know I want to do more of it in my life. And I know everyone who's been listening and watching is going to want to do likewise. So it's an enormous gift you've given us today. Michelle, thank you from the bottom of my heart, so much.
[01:01:06] Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for having.
